A message from Andy Martin of The Apostles
Andy Martin 3rd EP session
I assume the ‘Ian S’ is Ian Slaughter? If so then ‘hello Ian’. Any comment here purporting to come from me I actually have to send via e-mail to Andus first because I am unable to contribute to sites like these for technological reasons. There have been 2 or 3 people sent out greetings to me on this site but they’ve not left their e-mail addresses so I couldn’t respond to them even if I wanted to. I only see excerpts from this site when Andus sends them to me – usually when there’s some stupid argument about who played what instrument in The Creeping Nobodies in 1983 and which audience member stole their glue bag etc. It’s bizarre reading comments by people discussing The Apostles when I had forgotten about all that crap by 1990. This doesn’t apply to you, Ian, but it’s such a pain having to use Andus to post these comments I’ll say it here as I’m hardly going to be a regular contributor to this thing. So, for the record: punk died in the 1980s. The 1980s are gone and they’re not coming back. Punk is dead and it’s not coming back. Instead of droning on and on about what you did in the 1980s and who hit who at this or that gig, why not concentrate on what’s happening NOW and THINK AHEAD! Just a thought.
In case anyone else out there wants to release Apostles stuff on vinyl or CD – fine but please ask Dave Fanning first, purely out of politeness and common courtesy. For myself, I think ALL the tracks we’ve ever released should be available as free downloads. If I had my way, UNIT would no longer release CDs – they waste natural resources anyway – but the artwork and music tracks would be issued purely as digital downloads FOR FREE since that way our music is no longer a part of the capitalist commodity exchange. Never mind about that hoary old argument ‘oh but then you won’t make any money from sales of your music’ well we don’t make any bloody money from sales of our CDs anyway so who cares? If I want to make a profit, I work overtime or find another job – music, art and literature should all be free.
Also, thanks to the excerpts Andus sends me from this site, I have now counted no less than 4 occasions when poor Penguin The Peacemaker has had to jump in like a referee with ’steady on, chaps, keep it civil’ type messages. Penguin, referees are generally paid damned good wages – so you should start charging KYPP a decent fee.
If anyone wants to have a go at me (they usually do) then it’s no good posting angry retorts on this site (unless you want to see how long it takes for Penguin to leap in with ‘come on, folks, calm down, keep it friendly’), instead you can pester me at unitunited@yahoo.com.
KYPP: GOT THIS LATER ON via ANDUS IN REPLY TO MY FIRST COMMENT:
November 11th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Hi Andy (via Andus) always good to get a message from you.
Just to recap please contact Andy on unitunited@yahoo.com if you wish to.
I know ‘Quick’ Phil R (from King Cross 1978/79 times) asked for a contact for you Andy but I forgot to get back to him. This email has just reminded me! Better late than never I suppose.
Will ask Tony Drayton for a pay rise Andy, may get a pint of cider at Christmas thats all I signed up for originally. Maybe two pints from the boss will make things all right.
Do you want any Unit stuff up on post 86 section Andy, stuck Academy 23 the other day, and may put up Time To Think 7″ at some point.
Very glad to see you are ok with downloads to people that are interested in the band’s work throughout all incarnations.
November 11th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Wow, what happened to this post? Didn’t even get a chance to listen to it
All I saw was a rune, half a tune…and the damn shebang flew off inta the moon ((C) Lee Marvin, 1967)
November 11th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Oh well. That could’ve been quite good.
Very confusing that Andus is Andy and Penguin is the peacemaker, when I thought he was a very naughty boy.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:20 am
Interesting Andy, very interesting. If you want to publish any of your writing on here (like the way Josef Porter’s story is on here) please contact me via Andus or the contact option in the page header above.
I had some communication with BBP Records the other day who tell me, “just to let you know that Andy Martin will be going into the studio very soon to remaster all of the Apostles vinyl releases including the unreleased double LP and 7″ for release on CDR by BBP.”
This contradicts some of Andy’s comments in the first paragraph of his message, things like “I had forgotten about all that crap by 1990″ and “Instead of droning on and on about what you did in the 1980s…why not concentrate on what’s happening NOW and THINK AHEAD!”.
But hey Andy’s a contradictory guy, that’s what makes him so cuddly.
Finally, regarding Martin C’s comment – was there originally some download associated with this thread? Or am I just getting confused again?
BBP can be contacted at bbp_distro@hotmail.com
November 12th, 2008 at 1:36 am
I think BBP has got it wrong Tony, think this is Chris Low’s project. Nowt to do with Gogs. Andy knows of Chris’s remixed singles (and extra tracks) CD, whether he feels it is a ‘runner’ in 2008 I don’t know, but like he says up top I doubt it. The amount of cash to professionally remix seven LPs and an unreleased double LP would be staggering if using the master tapes. You could do it on the cheap via a direct rip of the vinyl onto harddrive and fiddle with it that way with some quality software but that will not sound half as good as a decent remix completed in a studio.
The CD will sell though as the resurgence of interest in the U.S and Asia by a much younger generation for the Apostles should get some royalties to Dave and Andy at least. I heard some remixed stuff from Chris project some time ago now. Sounds a little better than the singles did.
I took the download and post down due to some tracks appearing in the future (the same reason why I have not ever put the five 7″ singles up on this site from the beginning of this sites exsistance, because I knew Chris was working on getting as many master tapes as possible to work on, etc etc). Maybe Gogs can come on the site and let us know if that CD from BBP is something different to the one Chris is working on remixing right now, and any further details.
Notice you state nothing of the pay rise that Andy mentions I should get!
Do not want to get nasty but reckon two pints at christmas or I go on strike.
The balls in your court mighty Puppy Overlord, my master. *Bows head three times*
November 12th, 2008 at 2:00 am
I don’t want to piss on anyone’s parade, but Spurs are playing tomorrow night, so who cares? Ok, we’ve lost a rare Apostles tape – but pull together folks, nobody ever said life was gonna be fair – just tell me the link below doesn’t push in front of SPK to the front of the dinner queue – industrial bacofoil cosmonauts are we! PLAY LOUD! Smash THE BUSINESS!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4z8NfsiZOAU
November 12th, 2008 at 2:04 am
I have not lost a rare Apostles tape. Got it right next to me, HA!
Come On You Spurs…over and out going to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
November 12th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Hello Andy, yes it is me. Sorry I missed you on bonfire night, but I got the call back of seven o’clock and was already settled down south of the river with dinner cooking.
Will drop you a line at unitunited, would be good to see you.
November 12th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
just to clarify; again, this is most definately a case of crossed wires as Andy has not been in contact with Gogs or BBP for years.
Additionally it would obviously be impossible for anyone other than me to have any involvement in the ‘remastering’ of any of the early EPS as the master cassettes are in a box in my flat and have never been lent to anyone. And as Andy said in an email to me only last night he has absolutely no interest whatsoever in any of the old material, and even less in being involved in any projects facilitating their re-release which is why I have been entrusted with this project. Which has only been initiated as the early singles now sell for absurd sums on Ebay and , more fundamentally, the 7″ single versions of the songs were of atrocious quality due to the amount of music on each side of the records. And as Andy would generally diplicate cassettes in the early 80s in mono via two connected tape recorders, a true reflection of these recordings has never been heard.
Also, whilst i’m sure only Andy would confirm this I very much doubt there is any ‘unreleased’ Apostles material awaiting release, lest of all a double LP. I’d imagine any such recordings would long since have seen cassette release.
Penguin, the versions you have heard of the original EP tracks were simply the digital dumps with no remastering whatsoever. I can assure you the final ‘release’ version will be a more than dramatic improvement on the poor quality of the vinyl versions. though you are right that commercially, such remastering would be a prohibitively expensive procedure which is why this project has taken so long.
Hope this clears up any misunderstandings once and for all.
And please, let this be the last on this subject. I shall inform Micky of any developments re the CD release and these shall be duly posted up here.
For information on what Andy has been doing for THE PAST 25 YEARS please email him at the address he has provided: unitunited@yahoo.com
Thank you & Goodnight. CL
November 12th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Always funny to read Andy Martin’s comments, although they usually contain a hearty amount of cobblers (as does the post above)…
Looking back to the past:
http://www.archive.org/details/Countryblues/CountryBlues.mp3
Thinking about now and looking to the future:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zwmUOJR-GwA
Incompatible? Non…
November 12th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Oh I love Ninja tunes! I wonder if Coldcut were punks at one point
November 12th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
It will be brilliant to have those 4 early singles produced properly Chris. I look forward to it, I played my copies only once, awfull transister radio sound, but they are bostin tracks, and will be superb when done properly.
November 12th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Has any one heard of a punk band called Hysterical Combat, circa. 1982-84, they only released 3 or 4 singles, they were from Liverpool, Bootle I believe. The first single was called. Feeling down, can’t remeber the b side, the 2nd was an ep, of Walking Around/Lust For Life/The Parsons Poseurs/Bottle Head. Can Anyone help me out with this, as Bottle Head was a superb track. But I cannot find them or their stuff anywhere. Well, its worth a try.
November 12th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
The lyrics went something like this.
I get up in the morning
Feeling rather slow
But my brick head is always on show
I’m a bottle head bottle head
wasting my time
Bottle head Bottle head
feeling fine
Out in the streets they come and they go
walk right past me
but they don’t know.
I’m a bottle head bottle head
wasted my time
bottle head bottle head
give me some wine.
November 12th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
I saw them play in Hackney in 87 during their short reunion( about 2 weeks ), I was gonna interview them. One of them asked me if I knew the Hackney Hell Crew. but I never did get to interview them as they buggered off to some party. I think the main man was a chap called Slug.
November 12th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
haha, not quite ‘bottle head’ but you just reminded me of this:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LzpN9ce_qF0
(song starts at about 2.10)
ENJOY!
November 12th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Classic video Chris. reminded me of Fish Cakes by Bauhaus.
I remembered the title of that ep now, it was called The Bootle full people ep, it had a picture of Bootle on the cover with the band in the background. I sold it years ago when I was skint.
November 12th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
They play a gig at the Regression club I think it was called, supporting a band called Screamer and someone else
November 12th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
This is a classic
Reporter gets high in a matter of seconds trying to report on a marijuana burn! HILARIOUS! …
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=04i8RO-P7qg
November 14th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Penguin, If you do put any UNIT stuff up, you might want to go for, Fire and Ice or Untied And United or We Are Your Gods, cause those cds are no longer available.
November 14th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Thanks for the tip, will bring all the CDs (about 12 of the buggers) back to Penguin Towers from my work tonight and stick one of the above on.
November 15th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
This weeks selection. 2.00pm Cheltenham. Comply or Die 10-1
November 15th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
What odds the mighty THFC rolling those saps at Fulham? The game itself and then out on the streets?
November 15th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
5/4 Penguin. which is good odds.
November 15th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
And I will give 4/7 on the police winning after the match.
November 15th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Ta, will mull on it for a time…
November 15th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
cottagers come from behind to do the spurs.next hot tip andus?
November 15th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
And comply or die fell or pulled up, don’t know missed the race. but Fair Along won at 10-1. so I got my money back. and Aston Villa beat the Arsenal to send my football accumulator down. cxxts,
November 18th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
COSMOGRAPHY.
Alone,
A knight in isolation,
I am a gash in the eye of absurdity,
Collected with others
I have no discern of myself,
Thoughts become a mish-mash
Looking into the eye of the whirlpool….
In the company of others I am manifest !
Desolate displacement
upon displacement,
Impossible connection
both inside and out;
I have no choice,
Reality is stripped of all meaning,
While stars shine
incandescently from within;
This endless flatland is surreal,
You cannot put a name to it,
It cannot be pin-pointed,
It cannot be appraised,
This is no accuracy
in measuring the chaos
of ordered confusion;
And there is no solace either,
only the empty gate, leading nowhere;
There are no solutions in these dried up ruins,
( real life is clandestine )
Not even a reference-point, a guide for the lost,
Not even a furnace, a purifying all consuming fire,
Not even a ghost, or a shadow to scare our steps.
Memories that clutch, screaming, clawing,
Dragging us back to some abstruse definition,
Softness on the coldness,
A bloated mass of abstracts.
Elucidation evades us,
Indefinable fragments emaciate themselves;
The labyrinth is incoherent !
We turn and turn again,
not knowing from where we start,
or where we will end;
Adversity sucks at our power
and we become antipathetic;
With each step forward,
We walk into the shadow,
With each shadow,
We step forward;
Petulant in our prudence.
And god sleeps in a splintered alcove,
Jailed by our idea of it,
We pray for guidance
and close our eyes,
We plead for help and turn away,
Soliloquy in place of empathy,
Vehemence over instruction.
What a dark dark coming we have had of it,
Pressing against our own faces,
The desert turns its head
astonished at its own valour !
It seems so obvious sometimes,
that there should be four of us,
The two that are inside
and the others external,
All ghosts in appearance.
…And the others,
Walking alone in bewildered company,
Caught in the spell of language.
This is the cold wall,
Which we came to examine,
We assess its front,
Scrutinize its length,
Question its peak,
and observe its foundations,
But we cannot see the juxtapose,
Nor what may be hidden on the other side,
In this awesome ! limitless !
infinitely inexplicable space;
The dust is asking questions. !
We cannot cease from exploration,
we move nearer to our destiny,
Yet all our exploring
has been but a desert that walks upon another,
This is the way of the stars,
not in time,
because time is relative,
not from here the time of others;
The chaos that searches for order
Finding only itself.
We do not know where we go,
or from where we came,
Who we are, Why we are,
Or where we are,
Whichever way we look,
Within or without,
The horizon stretches from view;
Inwards and outwards,
Time here and time there,
Past, future and present,
Endless endless analysis,
Incessant unremitting appraisal,
We reach out from this point;
and the paradox confounds us !
Andy Nunn
November 21st, 2008 at 6:28 am
Penguin, please can you drop me a line off-site. ukhcskin@yahoo.com concerning the TTT 7″ (and A23 vinyl).
Cheers
November 22nd, 2008 at 1:05 pm
This weeks selection. 105 haydock, According to Pete, 8-1
November 22nd, 2008 at 2:14 pm
According to Pete wins at 11-2
November 24th, 2008 at 12:33 am
That was nice Andy Nunn. Poetrys the way forward. More on that later.
December 1st, 2008 at 2:53 am
is there more?
December 1st, 2008 at 3:02 am
Hi Chris, re your above post….do you have a copy of Glass Shells and Cars ?
an Andy composition , with Daves Whales In Space on the same
tape?…I can’t find either. Both are rather sentimental and I would love copies…
December 1st, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Sorry, but I have absolutely nothing by the Apostles after the 5th single. I may well have been sent a copy by Andy when it came out but would have given it away, though I must say it is quite an unusual title and i don’t recognise it. Penguin is probably the man to ask as he has an enormous collection of the later recordings.
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:07 am
Alright Jim. Whales in space was by Dave Fanning’s band the Harlequin Quartet not the Apostles. they released two demo tapes, possibly three. I have both demo’s. and I will happily do you copies if you want to send me c90s, I only have them on tape. you can email me at andynunn@blueyonder.co.uk.
December 2nd, 2008 at 9:28 pm
He’s right you know.
Punk is dead and The Apostles were crap.
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 pm
At last Cheers Andus…will email..thanks.
PeeWee…who cares?
December 6th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
This weeks selection. 3.05 Sandown. Sunnyhillboy 7-1, A P McCoy
December 6th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Sunnyhill boy wins at 9-2.
Thats 3 out 4 tips won.
Come racing with Andus, get your hot tips from KYPP with its 75% hit rate.
I am gonna start charging you for this Pengiun
December 6th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
i think Andus should have his own section for the horse racing tips
December 20th, 2008 at 3:28 am
Tony Puppy…your communication from BBP (see above post 12 Nov) it seems
is true after all…can’t wait.
December 20th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
This Weeks selection. Ascot 2.10. Duc De Regniere. 4-1.
December 20th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
whoops. duc de regniere, came 2nd at 5-1,
December 20th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Andy Martin has no interest in the Apostles. He’s been telling me that for years. But a lot of people still have an interest or are only finding out…
I’ve been trying to write a biography of the band the last two years as I thought they were just as important as Crass for trying to push the boat. Have been in touch with Andy, Dave, Chris and Scruff with interviews as well as compiling flyers, handouts, artwork etc. If anyone else can contribute please let me know. The finished product will hopefully include Academy 23/UNIT as well.
UNIT have recently recorded with Ian Bone and those recordings should be available soon.
I noticed earlier someone mentioned an unreleased double album. In 1990 Andy sent me the master tape for these recordings from Redchurch studios in 1986 and I put them out on cassette on Front Cover Tapes at the time under the title “No Faith No Fear” as suggested by Andy. Confusing as there was an EP of the same name. It was intended as the 8th album. Andy wrote an introduction for it and Dave provided a cover (called “Awake Sons of the North”). Parts of it did appear on cassette previously but this was the first time the full sessions were released. I did consider putting it out as a CD recently. Andy has no interest however and I don’t know if anyone else would either? Answers on a postcard.
Regarding the Apostles on CD Mortarhate plan to rerelease their back catalogue on CD so an Apostles CD may see the light eventually. Other than that the only other project I know of is Chris Low’s singles project of which I think he said mastering was nearing completion.
Be good to see….
December 20th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
For the record, the only Apostles releases I can say for definite ARE coming out shortly are:
“Blow It Up, Burn It Down, Kick It Till It Breaks” CD – the remastered 1st,2nd,3rd & 5th Apostles singles (the 4th single wasn’t a proper Apostles release and should not be regarded as so) plus extra studio tracks recorded at same sessions out in early 2009.
“Press Blackouts & Lies” – double (or potentially TRIPLE!) vinyl album collecting together a selection of, in my opinion, the most innovative and interesting Apostles recordings (ie 1981-1983, prior to first EP & previously unreleased) out on Harbinger Sound. Early 2009.
I have no idea and no interest in anything else. So please don’t ask.
December 20th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
A triple Apostles album – good to see the tradition laid down by Yes (Yessongs) and ELP (Welcome Back My Friends…) is still alive and well!
December 21st, 2008 at 1:39 am
Indeed. And with any luck one side should consist of the full 21 minute version of “Don’t Mark His Face”
December 21st, 2008 at 11:44 am
Did I just read that right? Out on Harbinger Sound?
How interesting…
December 21st, 2008 at 1:00 pm
There’s a Harbinger Records based in the US that does albums full of Broadway showtunes.
Can ‘The Apostles – the Musical’ be in the making?
“Don’t be stupid, be a smarty
Come along to the squat party”
December 21st, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Cheers for that back to front..the demo tape BBP sent out as Life was Daves demo…This was pointed out to BBP who now have and send out ‘Life’ as it should be …
December 21st, 2008 at 7:50 pm
haha, yes. I can just see Andy dancing through Tower Hamlets in a sparkly silver top hat and tails.
No, it’s the Harbinger Sound label that’s released stuff by the New Blockaders, Government Alpha, Smegma, Dieter Muh, Ramleh etc.
An excellent label and Steve, the chap who runs it, was a great admirer of the pre-vinyl Apostles material, hence wanting to put out this retrospective, selected from my 45 hours (!!) of unreleased 1981-1983 Apostles cassette recordings.
December 21st, 2008 at 9:43 pm
‘Smegma’, well that’s a charming name for a band that is.
Guess they must be one of those ‘cheesy listening’ acts.
December 21st, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Andy would do a brilliant version of Singing in the rain running down from Hackney Central into London fields with his top off, and Dave Fanning could do a fencing dance. superb.
I thought The Apostles 10th demo was the best thing they did.
BTW Chris. that film you wanted has finally arrived. I will post it down to Andy in the new year, with instructions to pass on to you.
December 21st, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Is it XXX rated Andus? Chris’s film collection is, shall we say, only watchable for the more broad minded!
December 22nd, 2008 at 12:59 am
Andus, i’ve never heard the 10th demo but you may well come to re-evaluate that statement once you hear some of the early experimental stuff which is just incredible. Some of the material from this period made it onto the “Topics For Discussion” demo (in my opinion, by far the best Apostles recording) such as ‘Chalet En Colere’, ‘Rediffusion Refugee’ etc but the vast amount of it remains unreleased and unheard. And i’ve got 30 bloody C90s of the stuff!!
Penguin, hohoho…just as well you haven’t had the pleasure of viewing any of my, ahem… ‘home movies’ then
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:07 am
Gary Cooke was here is the title of the 10th demo, apparently the demolition company were on the b side, though I don’t have the b side, neither do I have the track list. Pete the plectrum is on the 10th that’s all I know.
The film I am on about is the Nf march through Digbeth Birmingham, shown in the
movie Rude boy, The clash, much of which is set in Birmingham,
30 C90S. JESUS ! enough for a 2 new apostles albums every year for the next 15 years
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:20 am
‘Gary Cooke Was Here’ was a tape released by BBP originally featuring The Apostles only, tracklisting:
The End/The Beginning/The Agenda/Tomorrows Children/A Folk Song/Number 23/Erics Detactables/Strange Fruit/A Sniper And A Scarecrow (about Heretics and Campbell Buildings)/The Survivers
Andy M/Dave F/Patrick Poole (AKA Rat from Statement) are The Apostles on this cassette, the 10th demo.
The only split cassette I have is the 11th demo which is Apostles and Paradox from Isreal on the b side. The Apostles for this cassette inc Sean and Colin from Demolition Company.
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:22 am
Apparently, Andy wrote a song about me but i’ve never heard it. Always wondered what it was about!!??
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:27 am
I will try to find out what the song was Phil, one thing about Andy is he generally is quite descriptive on the cassette / single / LP covers about what the tracks are about.
You may well be mentioned in ‘A Sniper And A Scarecrow’ though, all about Sgt Heresy and the Scarecrow that died, not the Scarecrow (Crow) that is a browser on this site now and again. I will have to listen to it again.
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:54 am
Cheers for that penguin. Pete the Plectrum turns out to be Erics Detactables.
which I seem to recall being on one of their singles/mini albums.
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:52 pm
hey Phil how was your retreat?
Glad youre back mate
I wanna hear this song about you too.
And I also wanna hear this song about Sniper & Crow (both our drummers, eh)
Thats emotional, a song about Crow. I never knew.
Can you point me to it Pengween? Is it on the Apostles site?
Cheers.
December 22nd, 2008 at 9:01 pm
No Baron, it’s in my hand. Will upload it tonight but it will be the whole cassette, and it will be over in post 86 section of this site. Andy Martin contacted me today, so will reply and ask him about the Phil R song. If I have it I will upload it, if it has not been uploaded already on this site!
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:50 pm
‘A Sniper and a scarecrow’ track plus the rest of the material on the 10th Apostles demo is now uploaded on the post 86 section.
Link for lazy slobs here!
http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/post86/?p=56
Also Phil R you are mentioned on one of Andy Martin’s records sleeves link below, to do with squatting in Campbell Buildings and so forth. Wrote to him today re: lyrics about yourself on any of the tracks recorded or otherwise by The Apostles.
http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb227/killyourpetpuppy/Print%20material/?action=view¤t=KYPP12.jpg
A hint, when the link puts you on the page, put the curser on the text and press left hand button once, this will make the text bigger and more readable.
December 23rd, 2008 at 12:10 am
Read Andy’s piece about Campbell Buildings etc… it goes on to mention the four houses the Black Sheep Housing Co-op got in Islington. Respect to Mr.Martin – who helped get the Co-op going – but he says “the punks were deliberately given houses that were in a despicable state …and when the punks had renovated them… they would be moved to another four houses, all dilapidated and have to start all over again …”
That didn’t happen. The same four houses we got from Islington Council in 1982 lasted for many years and 53 Cross Street lasted 21 years- see http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=514
December 23rd, 2008 at 12:28 am
Was Brougham Road given the same life span?
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:03 am
Cant fuckin sleep.
Seems so weird (good) to me that someone wrote a poem about them.
Who is Jon Barraclough?
Edit. I aint being funny here but Crows name was Pete Locke(or am i going gaga?) not Richard Gill.
And if he was dead he could hardly colaberate with Mr Martin to write the song as Mr Richard is credited as doing.
Must be a bit of a mix up here.(There was Brian Gill mate of Danny ‘Lux’ but I very much doubt he would have moved folk to poetry)
Any light on this Phil?
You knew both parties.
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:33 am
Apologies for double post.
Or;
Andy Martin knew Crow and wrote the music together in 1980 – before Crow died – when he, Andy, was in the ‘Black Cross’?
And doesnt want to put Crows real name to it?
How very curious.
Crow was in ‘Chaos’ before ‘The Heretics’.
Didnt know about him doing anything with ‘Black Cross’ but my memorys bolloxed anyway…
You all may be wondering why I give a toss.
Well, simply that if its IS about both Crow & Sniper I might well nick it and bought it in print somewhere.
Eeh oop.
Cheers
Jake
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:53 am
Oh no…my balls up, I always assumed it was the two guys that you knew well Jake…after playing the tape and looking at the lyric sheet more closely for the first time in 20 years tonight, I see the name Richard Gill (Scarecrow) who was a member of The Turdburglers with Luggy, and they both contribute comments on this site from time to time. So this Crow is well and alive. Andy would have known the other Scarecrow (no longer with us) though for sure at the time. Unless Andy Martin made a typo on the lyric sheet and got confused with the writer of the music (R Gill) and the other Scarecrow, could happen I guess. Sure the guy who wrote the poem was probably thinking of the two passed on Heretics skin bashers though…dunno!
December 23rd, 2008 at 2:02 am
No worriz.
Now go to bed. Your kid ‘ll need feeding soon so you need to sleep.
Let ME do the worrying in the wee hours…
December 23rd, 2008 at 4:32 am
The final word on ALL Apostles reissue CDs from Andy Martin’s pen is in the text belonging to the UNIT uploads on post 86 section
Here for the lazy bones
http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/post86/?p=64
Plenty of interesting Andy Martin prose also included apart from the Apostles reissues, as well as three tracks off most of the available UNIT CD’s.
Go give the post a read and a listen.
Took me ages to put the post up, and obviously ages for Andy to write all the text, with help from Luc from UNIT.
Going to bed NOW BVZ…
December 23rd, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Phil R – King Cross ETC by The Apostles is loosely based on you and your crowd at the time amongst Derby Lodge in the late 1970’s, by a strange twist of fate I uploaded UNITs version of this track last night. http://www.mediafire.com/?2mmoifotvyr
There are plenty more versions of this song on this site with the amount of 7″ cassettes and LPs the band released.
One of my favorite Apostles tracks actually…
December 24th, 2008 at 3:50 am
I think the apostles track I liked best was their cover version (uncredited – I think they called it ‘the Hunt’ or something) of Thin Lizzy’s ‘Emerald’. Andy Martin was quite surprised that I spotted that one, but having seen The Lizzy perform it as a guitar duel between Brian Robertson and Scott Gorham live at the Southend Kursaal in 1976 (the very first live gig I ever attended in fact) it was pretty indelibly burned into my brain…
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rENy7MQIYJs
December 24th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Thanks Pengy Andy was spending a lot of time with me Lisa Pinki etc at Derby lodge
Just gonna take this chance to say Nazi Pope FUCK OFF!!!
He has just announced that Queers pose a bigger threat to humanity than the distruction of the worlds rainforests …What an asshole!!!
December 24th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
That religion is on its last legs anyway, this is exactly the kind of pope we need, one who will get them to their nemesis quicker. Nazi-pope you bet, he was in the Hitler youth. apparently joined of his own accord and was a big fan of Hitler at the time. Don’t forget the neo-nazi Barack Obama who is not going to prosecute people for torturing Muslins as he said he would, on the grounds that “its all in the past lets look to the future”. Perhaps thats why the nazi’s got convicted at Nuremburug, wrong argument. Hess and company should have simply stated that it was all in the past and we should be looking to the furture, and they would have been aquitted. Barack Obama. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
December 25th, 2008 at 2:10 am
Hi Alistair, re above..when and why was Brougham Road reposessed by the council?
December 25th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Phil, Popey just shows him self up by saying that shit.
Dont worry the tide has turned. Anyone got the lyrics aof kings Cross etc?
December 26th, 2008 at 12:38 am
“Don’t forget the neo-nazi Barack Obama”
Who also flew in the face of middle America in his acceptance speech mentioning equal rights for gays. Time will tell but he’s not a Nazi.
December 26th, 2008 at 2:13 am
Yeah but he didn’t mean it, he appointed Madeleine Albright to his Goverment, Albright who in a 1996 interview with Lesley Stahl on CBS’s 60 Minutes. When asked by Stahl with regards to effect of sanctions against Iraq: “We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?” Albright replied: “I think this is a very hard choice, but the price — we think the price is worth it,
So Barack Obama appoints a woman who thinks its ok to kill 500.000 kids. hes definately a Nazi mate, as is the whole US goverment
December 26th, 2008 at 2:49 am
Mate, the US government may be a lot of things – but they are not “Nazis” .
December 26th, 2008 at 2:53 am
Is that why they have tortured innocent Muslins in secret camps for years
December 26th, 2008 at 4:14 am
Whatever mate, you win. The whole US government are National Socialists and Barack Obama has a shrine to Hitler in his bedroom.
December 26th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
I didn’t realise that the ‘War on Terror’ was so wide-reaching that they had gone so far as to actually torture fabrics…
First Muslins – what next? Hessian? Velvet?
(Disclaimer: The above ‘humorous’ post is not intended to disparage the plight of those imprisoned. It is – however – a reflection of Emma Goldman’s idea that it’s not my revolution unless I can have a total bloody Doss…)
December 26th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Nic, You’ve got it all wrong its a war on tourists, not terrorists, this is why they torture the stuff that tourists potentially buy
December 26th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
‘Whatever mate, you win. The whole US government are National Socialists and Barack Obama has a shrine to Hitler in his bedroom’.
Theres no need to get all technical on me. I see you are are using the word Nazi in its literal sense, I was using it in its slang.
Alright then, They’re evil and the whole US goverment is Evil, is that better.
December 26th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Yes, matey, it is! and I don’t think anyone would disagree with that!!
I just always find it really daft when people bandy about talk of Nazis and suchlike in terms of Western Government or political policy as it is just hyperbolic nonsense.
It really made me laugh at that CW do at Ladbroke Grove last year when some crusty moron was shouting at the Old Bill who were telling everyone do move out of the road “Fascists…Police State” to which the copper in weary tones replied “Yes, sir, we are Fascists and this is a Police State. Now would you please mind stepping onto the pavement so the No.76 bus can get past”
Classic!
December 26th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
The US goverment is better described as a fascist goverment, after all fascism means rule by corporations, Nazism and fascism are two different political systems, but anyway where does the term nazism actually come from, I have never been able to find out, its not the national socialist workers party in short, so where does that term originate, no one seems to know.
December 27th, 2008 at 1:30 am
Nazi is a shortened version of National Socialist when it’s written in German.
It’s both easy and naive to point the finger at America and say it’s ruled by corporations without also admitting that the same corporations rule the rest of the world too. At this point the entire world does the majority of its manufacturing in China and India and what you buy is shipped to you by big corporations using fossil fuel provided by other big corporations it’s called globalization and it’s the way the world works nowadays.
I also grew out of that ‘all politicians are the same’ and ‘whoever you vote for the governments wins’ school of thought by the time I left my teens. If you want to think Obama is the same as Bush, fine that’s your opinion, if you think Thatcher and Blair are the same as they are both politicians, that’s also your opinion. I’m not arguing that point with you as it would be a waste of both of our time.
Personally I’m going to wait until Obama is actually in power before judging his actions, if after 1 year Guantanamo bay is still open (It’s hardly secret if everyone knows its name and location) they he’ll be a hypocrite in my eyes until then I won’t criticise him for Madeline Albrights views and opinions.
Oh and Chris that was a pretty funny post, nice one, but really class war still exists? Those guys should find a hobby or something.
December 27th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
I used to think Nazi was a shortened version of National Socialist written in German but it isn’t. check. National sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter partei.
its was actually refered to as the NSDA. were the z comes in I don’t know, and the A is in the wrong place, , theres no i, and the D is nowhere to be seen in NAZI.
When I was young I used to think the politicians were all different, having watched one Govermennt after another since 1974, round about the early 90s I started to realise they were all part of the same club, more or less.
Blair and Thatcher were not the same,no, Blair was a progression from Thatcher. ie. more right wing.
Corporations do operate across the world, but they don’t own the Chinese Goverment, like they do the US one, and they certainly don’t own any Goverments in the Islamic world which is one of the reasons we are at war with them.
I don’t criticize Obama for Allbrights opinions, I criticize him cause he associates with her, ie, any one associating with Hitler on a serious level would be deemed dodgy, goverment is about as serious a level as you can get. Why did he appoint Allbright anyway, there were plently of other choices, no, he picked a person who thinks mass-murder is ok over and above many other candidates. and he appointed Colin (mad bomber) Powell as well. QED.
December 27th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
John, I think to all intents and purposes CW ended in the mid ’80s but it’s weary ghost kind of lives on as a cult for misfits of various hue. Like those who claim to be the modern day Manson Family, Red Army Faction or Bay City Rollers.
QUOTE: National sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter partei.
its was actually refered to as the NSDA. were the z comes in I don’t know,
errr…it looks like it comes between the ‘A’ and the ‘I’ to me mate. Still as for the origins of the term, Google is a good place to start (or to save you the bother John is correct). Although you may wish to check your sources regarding Obama ‘appointing Colin Powell’ – as he has done no such thing.
December 27th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
I don’t see a Z in NSDA Chris, Do you.
The term ‘Nazi’ was in widespread use in Germany as a mildly derogatory term in the early 1930s. It was inspired by the use of ‘Sozi’ for socialists. (Compare with ‘Commie’ for ‘Communist’). Rival gangs of young kids in German school playgrounds in the early 1930s called themselves ‘Nazis’ or ‘Sozis’ and fought one another.
December 27th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Another one of Obama’s appointments was the one Rohm Emanual who was given the position of Chief of Staff, Son of Benjamin M Emanuel who was a member of the terrorist group ‘Irgun’ which bombed hotels,market places as well as being responsible for the infamous Deir Yassin Massacre
December 27th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
QUOTE: I don’t see a Z in NSDA Chris, Do you.
No but I do see one in ‘Sozialistische’ – as in: National Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter; National Socialist (NAZI) Party of Germany.
NB: The Nazi Party came into being in 1919. I imagine the kids playing games in School playgrounds in the 1930s may have heard of them.
December 27th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Yeah but its not an acronym, its based on syllables, everyone in the past has told me that it was an acronym of NSDA, I was rather puzzled as to how that could be. So Sozi came first as a slang for socialsts, then when Hitlers party came along, the phrase for them was Nazi, With the N going at the beginning to signify Nationalism.
And I stand corrected on Colin Powell, he has not been appointed as yet, but Obama is considering making him the Mideast Envoy, and probably will, especially after todays events.
December 27th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
Hey Andus I thought for a minute you were going to argue German pronunciation with someone that lived there for three years and speaks it fluently? If you say National Socialist in German there is a pronounced Z sound, but you already seem to know this, so why ask the question?
As for Rahm Emanuel (it’s Rahm not Rohm), his brother is one of the biggest entertainment agents in Hollywood is he a terrorist too? Ari Emanuel google him if you want. I think you’ll find him no more responsible for the acts of his father than you are for the acts of yours or I am for the acts of mine. Though Ari is responsible for the careers of Reese Witherspoon and Vin Diesel so I guess he’s not entirely innocent
December 27th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Sorry, can I just be clear about this… Was the Pope the lead singer in the Apostles? And – not that I really give a shit – but was he any good????
December 27th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
No Stewart, some guy named Jesus fronted the Apostles and as Paul W pointed out earlier they were in fact crap.
December 27th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
The point I was making about Rahm is if say Iran. Syria or Pakistan appointed a son of a terrorist, the US Goverment would make a big thing about it. whats good for the goose is good for the gander, but does Rahm support his Fathers actions, seeing as it involved the formation of Israel I reckon he probably does.
I used to know a bloke from Germany who lived through Hitlers regime as a child, he was drafted into the army age 16 in 1945, the regiment he joined immediately went into the allied lines and surrendered, so his 2 hours in the German army involved surrending, being taken as POW to Britain where he stayed, anyway, I said to him once ‘Is the word nazi short fot National socialist workers party, and he laughed his tits off, but he never did tell me what nazi did stand for, albeit some vague talk of it being slang.
December 28th, 2008 at 12:24 am
Col Ghadaffi’s son is loved by even right wing politicians in the US as is the Ayatolla Khomeini’s grandson. Ronald Reagan’s son however is a gay liberal hated by conservatives pointless arguement.
As for the guy laughing at you, maybe it was your shoes, but Nazi is still a slang abreviation for Nationalist which is in itself a shortened form National Socialist. Conservative can be shortened to the slang tory too, crazy huh?
If you understand Sozi then why not ‘Nazi’ they have the same unwritten z sound in the pronunciation.
December 28th, 2008 at 2:10 am
Hellfire – this thread is beginning to look like one on that Crass messageboard…
If you can’t play nicely, Penguin will upload another of Chris’ Apostles rehearsal tapes…
December 28th, 2008 at 11:37 am
iirc ‘Nazi’ already existed in Germany as a nickname, an informal version of a proper name, like Micky or Jimmy in English.
Can’t remember where I read that though, probably something dubious like the Reader’s Digest Book of Strange Stories and Amazing Facts or maybe one of those ‘fun facts’ you sometimes find printed on matchboxes or ciggy paper packets.
December 28th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
I wouldn’t mind hearing How Much Longer and Equinox Screams as I don’t have them. No doubt Penguin will pop up saying they have already been uploaded and that I have no eyes. They gonna be re-released so I can wait.
So the ghost of Crass stalks this web site then Nic, I expect they go text in the night.
I wonder if any members of Crass have read this website.
The word Nazi has been well and truly sorted out anyway.
December 28th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
A recent search for pages that contained the word “Nazi” revealed 3,920,000 web hits, and 1,710,000 group hits. A search for “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” revealed 5,410 web hits, and 4,910 group hits. The word “Nazi” was used 724 times more often on the web and 348 times more often in groups. “National Socialist German Workers’ Party was used 0.14% of the time that “Nazi” was used on the web. “National Socialist German Workers’ Party was used 0.3% of the time that “Nazi” was used in groups.
A search of the web sites that contain both the phrase “national socialist german workers’ party” and the word “Nazi” revealed only 4,260 hits. A search of news groups revealed 3,330 hits.
A recent search for posts that contained the word “Hitler” revealed 2,910,000 web hits, and 1,770,000 group hits.. A search for pages that contained both the phrase “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” and “Hitler” revealed only 4,270 web hits, and 3,390 group hits. A search for pages that contained both the phrase “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” and “Hitler” and “nazi” revealed only 3,670 web hits, and 2,550 group hits.
A recent search for pages that contained the word “fascist” revealed 705,000 web hits, and 582,000 group hits. A search for pages that contained both the phrase “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” and “fascist” revealed only 1,450 web hits, and 1,330 group hits. A search for pages that contained both the phrase “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” and “fascist” and “nazi” revealed only 1,310 web hits, and 1,190 group hits.
A recent search for pages that contained the word “fascism” revealed 639,000 web hits, and 292,000 group hits. A search for pages that contained both the phrase “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” and “fascism” revealed only 1,340 web hits, and 1,280 group hits. A search for pages that contained both the phrase “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” and “fascist” and “nazi” revealed only 1,210 web hits, and 1,140 group hits.
December 28th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Very interesting.
December 28th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Andus, you really should get out more.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
For once Chris you’re right. right I’ll nip to the shops and get myself a dime bar or something.
December 28th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Just got back from my mum’s…what’s been happening in my absence? Hope you have all been behaving yourself!
Quote from Andus:
“I wouldn’t mind hearing How Much Longer and Equinox Screams as I don’t have them. No doubt Penguin will pop up saying they have already been uploaded and that I have no eyes.”
Try looking over at post 86 section you will then spot ‘How Much Longer’ over there…
http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/post86/?p=34
for shortcut.
‘Equinox Screams’ is a different matter. Have not got around to that one yet, it contains re-recorded bedroom recordings of material off that dodgy fourth EP namely, Rock Against Communism, Rights For Whites, Kill Or Cure, and Stop The Rot *** which generally upset my normal pleasant demenour, so I may fuck it off, I dunno…’The Acts of The Apostles’ LP will go up first at any rate and that will be on post 86 section so keep checking back…
*** It must be noted that in my experience Andy Martin is not actually racist or homophobic etc, but sticking the ‘Equinox Screams’ LP up, some younger browsers, or those unaccustomed to The Apostles may not hear, or know of some of the irony within the lyrics of those tracks. Out of context the LP sounds well dodgy!
December 29th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
The only positive thing I can say about ‘Equinox Screams’ is that I once had the idea of burning the 4 nazi tracks onto a CD-R and trying to sell it on eBay as an archive transferral of the only existing demo by White Boss. I’m not averse to making a buck off boneheads, and I reckon it would’ve been a good scam, especially when one of the mugs who’d ‘bought it now’ for £15 found out. I suppose ‘Stop the Rot’ is quite funny.
‘Smash the Spectacle’ was my personal fave just for the raw ‘Mob Violence’ and the Ennio Morricone-goes-squatpunk vibe of ‘New World..’ and ‘Libertarian Youth’
December 29th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Well. I went out last night, and this morning, and its damn freezing, and I’ve got frost bite, you cunt Chris.
Go on put Equinox Screams up, rights for whites, too right, I wouldn’t mind being repatriated along with the Asians if the BNP get in, of course us whites won’t get that option.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:12 am
thread approaching bellendious…
December 30th, 2008 at 8:58 am
and you can stream or download it here:
http://www.jamendo.com/en/track/180906
December 30th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
‘Equinox Screams’ was one of the first times i heard the apostles…….wtf was it all about?
December 30th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
I wrote to Andy after I heard that album and asked about those particular tracks and he basically said he was baiting fascists. Later he would add that he also wanted to confront the conservative anarcho-punk tea party. Andy is most certainly not a racist.
Martin C that made me laugh and you’ve given me an idea…
December 31st, 2008 at 12:35 am
I know you don’t do requests..but..Aus_Rotten’s Fuck Nazi Sympathy might be appropriate..?
January 1st, 2009 at 3:33 pm
The Apostles were a very big influence on me, far greater i think, than Crass.
As for somebodys comment about Andy Martin being racist and homophobic, I just assumed that was a joke!
January 1st, 2009 at 6:35 pm
We’re all racist and homophobic here.
My name means ‘prick’ in Arabic. S’pose thats why I got cold shouldered on the Fundamental site…
But “Yes, sir, we are Fascists and this is a Police State. Now would you please mind stepping onto the pavement so the No.76 bus can get past”
Classic!
Reminds me of some old footage I saw of the convoy.
Loads of vehicles in a line. Some cops blocking off access. Usual thing
A girl all convoyed up, completely freakin out at these cops. Being seriously insulting. I was waiting for the long arm of the law to appear on camera. But all the cops did was try to engage her in conversation by talking about the vehicles
“well you might see some glorious freedom transporters but some see a load of knackered buses with no MOT.Its just a question of perceptoion”etc.
And all she could do was attack them. It was very sad.
The pigs were acting like human beings and our tribe babe couldnt see it.
Guess we’ve all done it.
But try saying this to a Greek…
January 1st, 2009 at 7:06 pm
A ‘kebab Greek’ at that…
January 1st, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Was that just before the riot police moved in, and kicked the fuck out of them, killing one of them? But no MOT shouting at the police, I guess that justifies illegal corporal punishment with no right to a trial first, not to mention the death penalty.
January 2nd, 2009 at 1:24 am
One of the convoy was KILLED by the police at Stonehenge?!! News to me.
Like not having insurance, a motor vehicle without an MOT should not be on the road.
January 2nd, 2009 at 1:44 am
Its been common knowledge for the last 23 years mate that a chap was killed during the battle of the beanfield. you really don’t know a lot do you Chris.
I totally agree people without MOT should not be on the road. But how do you know they did not have MOT, I don’t seem to remember anyone beoing prosecuted for it, least the news did not report any prosecutions, you think they would have reported that seeing as it would have been good and true propaganda for them.
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:05 am
With respect, if I “don’t know a lot” nor does anyone else. The police’s ambush and attack was an indefensible, disgusting and deplorable act but I have never heard of anyone being killed at the battle of the beanfield, and in fact having entered variations on killed/murdered/died/stonehenge/peace convoy/battle of the beanfield/operation daybreak into Google I cannot find ONE SINGLE mention of it. Additionally, one would have thought the police killing someone would have warranted a mention in the book on The Battle of The Beanfield by Andy Worthington, which, coincidentally, I read only a month or so ago. Perhaps you have a link or source?
Totally agree with you re the vehicles having MOTs or not. My original comment was meant in general, not in relation to the peace convoy.
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:19 am
To be fair I have just done the same thing as you, ie done every different google search and I cannot find anything about anyone being killed at the beanfield. However I have heard for years and years off lots of different people that someone was killed there. It is mentioned in the documentary Spirit of Albion, I have read Mr Worthington’s book as well, Could it be that there is an injuction on anyone reporting it, There was I have been told a D notice that prevented it being reported at the time it happened. But I have heard about this killing from most travellers I met during the numerous free festivals I went to from 85-89. Perhaps its just a rumour, but one hell of one if it is.
As for the MOTs. I lived on the road for about 4 months in 1988, the travelers I was with made absolutely certain they had MOT and insurance, it was a major issue since the police were looking for any tiny excuse they could get to bust them.
January 2nd, 2009 at 4:23 am
Yes, it is without doubt just a rumour. ‘D notices’ don’t really exist and it beggars belief that, had anyone been killed, it could or would have been hushed up.
But sure you’re right about MOTs and travellers. I don’t see how the convoy would ever have even existed had they not had their papers as the old bill would just have impounded their vehicles.
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:05 am
Travellers having MOTs..squatters paying gas and leccy? Dont think there were any particular rules. People just got by the best they could.
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:07 am
I think you’re wrong about d notices not existing cause that was on the bbc a couple of weeks ago. You are the first person to refute this death at the beanfield, every single person I have spoken to about the subject over the last 20 years has mentioned this death.
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:14 am
Heres the wikipedia on D notices.
In Britain, a DA-Notice (called a D-Notice until 1993) is an official request to news editors not to publish or broadcast items on specified subjects, for reasons of national security.
D-Notices and DA-notices are merely a request and therefore not legally enforceable and consequently news editors can choose to ignore them without (in theory) official repercussions, although they are generally accepted by the media.
The original D-Notice system was introduced in 1912, run as a voluntary system by a joint committee headed by an Assistant Secretary of the War Office and a representative of the Press Association.
In 1971 all existing D-Notices were cancelled and replaced by standing D-Notices that gave general guidance on what could be published and what could not, and what would require further advice from the secretary of the Defence, Press and Broadcasting Advisory Committee (DPBAC). In 1993 the notices were renamed DA-Notices.
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:15 am
From The Times
October 24, 2008
D-notice slapped on MoD’s history of censorship, Secrecy and the Media, after spat over ‘turgid’ writing
The present Iraq war is not in the D-notice history, which stops at 1997
(Chris Helgren)
The present Iraq war is not in the D-notice history, which stops at 1997
David Sharrock
There is a long tradition of the military suppressing news that it considers detrimental to national security by slapping a D-notice on it.
But when the D-notice committee decided that the time was ripe to publish its own official history, nobody imagined that it would fall victim to its own system. The history of the D-notice committee has, in effect, had a D-notice slapped on it by the D-notice committee.
Even in the long history of sloppy Fleet Street copy, no scoop has ever been suppressed by the Defence Press and Broadcasting Advisory Committee, as it is properly known, for reasons of grammatical incompetence, style or erudition.
Yet this is apparently one of the reasons why the history has been censored in a spat between the committee’s current and former secretaries.
Secrecy and the Media, written by Rear-Admiral Nick Wilkinson, who was secretary of the committee from 1999 to 2004, should have been hitting all good bookshops this month, according to the academic publisher Routledge’s website.
But an extraordinary wrangle over the 300,000-word manuscript in the corridors of Whitehall threatened at one point to junk the book entirely. A compromise was reached only after the intervention of Christopher Andrew, a Cambridge historian and an expert on the intelligence services.
The book will now be published in May, but without its final five chapters. These cover the Blair years, charting the winding-down of the Irish terrorist campaigns and the War on Terror.
The Times has learnt that the manuscript was cleared for publication by all the relevant government departments – MI5, SIS, GCHQ and the Foreign, Home and Cabinet offices, as well as the Treasury Solicitor and the Attorney-General. However, when it arrived at the Ministry of Defence it was passed not to the department’s security and legal experts but to the current D-notice secretary, Air Vice-Marshal Andrew Vallance.
He advised that the book be with drawn altogether for “reasons of style and structure”, and that a new official history should be commissioned, to be written instead by a “trained historian”, a source has told The Times. The air vice-marshal’s view was endorsed by the MoD.
Possibly sensing a looming public relations disaster, the Cabinet Office sought the opinion of Mr Andrew, who is writing the official history of MI5. His view was that there was absolutely no reason for its publication to be prevented on any grounds of style, structure or content.
Faced with his endorsement, the Ministry of Defence then objected to the book’s coverage of recent events, up to and including 2004, arguing that it should halt at 1991.
Finally a compromise was reached by the Cabinet Office under which the text should end at 1997 – in accordance with a convention that official histories do not normally include matters concerning the administration in power at the time of publication.
As a consequence, the five final chapters have been held back – even though they had previously been given clearance by all the Government’s departments.
They will eventually be published in a later edition of the book after a change of administration. A number of television documentary makers have already expressed interest in turning the book into a series.
Air Vice-Marshal Vallance told The Times yesterday: “It was awfully written. I’ve read it twice and it was an agony to read. It’s turgid. One of the sentences in it was 130 words long. It’s just poor history.”
He later clarified his remark, saying: “It’s poorly presented history. It’s very thorough, but it’s just difficult to read.”
The manuscript was “a first draft” and the dispute was “a spat and a difference of opinion between myself and Nick Wilkinson”.
Rear-Admiral Wilkinson declined to comment, saying: “It would be ungentlemanly for me to say anything about an elderly official in the twilight of his brilliant career.”
A century of secrecy
— The reason why a Dnotice is so named is a mystery. In the run-up to the First World War notices were labelled alphabetically but the expression “getting a Dnotice” originated when the War Office and the Admiralty began issuing censorship orders to newspapers under a system set up in 1912. The term stuck even after the media began self-regulating
— Secrecy and the Media is described by its publishers as “essential reading for those in the media and government departments dealing with security and intelligence” and as “an accessible exposé for the public, in whose interests both sides are operating”
— The Dnotice committee is chaired by the Permanent UnderSecretary of State for Defence, with four senior civil servants and 13 members nominated by the media
— Five nonlegal standing Defence Advisory Notices provide “guidance on those areas of national security that the Government considers it has a duty to protect”. They have no legal standing
— The full notices, covering operations, weapons, communications, installations and intelligence, are at http://www.dnotice.org.uk
January 2nd, 2009 at 4:09 pm
QUOTE: You are the first person to refute this death at the beanfield, every single person I have spoken to about the subject over the last 20 years has mentioned this death.
You are making that up.
Yes, andus, i think I know how D/DA Notices work. I worked for the Press Association for six years. OBVIOUSLY information regarding ‘national security’ isn’t going to be published in the newspapers. You were talking about a ‘D-Notice’ being applied to this ficticious murder at Stonehenge, which is patently nonsense.
Funnily enough, an official request WAS recently made to the press requesting the photo that was front page of about every tabloid around the rest of Europe of Prince William with his cock out taking a piss (Google should you so desire) was not reproduced in any British tabloids, and I was very surprised that News International acquiesced to this.
NB: I’m sure simple URL links to any sources would suffice as these cut & paste odysseys do take up a bit of space.
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:33 pm
No I am not.
Why would they not put a D notice up about a chap being killed by the police, why is that not national security, could it not have led to attacks on the police if it had been reported.
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:47 pm
no offence mate, but that really does not even warrant a response. You do come out with some singularly outlandish ideas sometimes.
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Whats so outlandish about it. The killing of a 15 year old boy was a catalyst for riots across Greece recently. At the time of the Beanfield the authorities suspected some travellers of having guns.
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:19 pm
The story that someone was killed in the Battle of the Beanfield was NOT about in the summer/autumn of 1985. I lived at Greenlands farm, Glastonbury August/ November 1985 where most of the Peace Convoy had ended up.
If there had been a rumour that someone had been killed going about then, only three months after the event, I would have heard it. Pinki was also very involved in the Stonehenge Campaign and she never mentioned any body being killed.
A few years later,once the event had become a counterculture myth, the story may have circulated, but it was not current in 1985/6.
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Andus, you’re just being daft now. Think alistairliv’s comment above should be the last on the subject.
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Thats correct I first heard this rumour in 1987, but each time I heard it was the same story, chap dies weeks later from injuries inflicted on him after the beanfield, the fact that the story was the same everywhere I heard it led me to believe it. perhaps it is bullshit, but I will be looking into this.
‘You’re just being daft now’.
Me or the 15 year old boy.
or travellers being suspected of having guns.
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Yes, yes, yes, but let’s cut to the chase – what sort of beans were they in this field?
And how did they manage to kill a man?
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Obviously, if the bean in question had fled the crime scene afterwards it would have been a runner bean, and if it was a gullible sort of bean it would be saying: “But – er – I’m sure that story’s true” (that’s a butter bean…). If it had been hot it would have been a baked bean.
But that’s enough bean jokes. I’ve bean there, done that…
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:52 pm
AND AGAIN…..
Andus, you’re just being daft now. Think alistairliv’s comment above should be the last on the subject.
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Never heard the story of someone being killed either, and I’m sure I would have if it were true…
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Furthermore, though perhaps not surprisingly, I have never heard any suggestion – and can’t find anything anywhere on the internet – that it was ever suspected travellers at the battle of the beanfield had, or may have had, guns.
and to paraphrase yourself, one would have thought [the police] “would have reported that seeing as it would have been good and true propaganda for them”
Murders…guns…This is all just complete nonsense.
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Ok Chris fair enough.
My Grandma used to grow Runner beans, tricky blighters always attraching greenfly, had to keep spraying them.
Anyway here is the Battle of the Beanfield for those who have not seen it,
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=15246101
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:19 pm
You need to look for old newspaper footage from the time, I remember The Sun going on about travellers having guns, and it was mentioned on the bbc news at the time, it was a story that ran for about a week.
anyway I thought you had called time on the subject.
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:29 pm
Right luckily, the documentary Spirit of Albion is available on google video in 12 parts, If I remember right its this film that mentions all of my above assertions, its a channel 4 film first shown in 1987.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=spirit+of+albion&emb=0&aq=f#
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:42 pm
QUOTE: I remember The Sun going on about travellers having guns
Ah, Of Course! I should have thought to check with The Sun, clearly the most impartial and non-partisan of newsources regarding Hippy Travellers.
Jesus fucking christ…..what are you on?
and i’m sure I could find loads of videos on the net about how the Bush Administration was responsible for 9/11, how the moon landings were faked or how the 2004 tsunami was Israeli nuclear weapons testings but it doesn’t mean there is one iota of truth in any of this bullshit and, sorry, but i certainly don’t need to sit through 12 parts of some film to know that.
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:56 pm
What are you on. I said the travellers were accused of having guns, not that they did have guns.
Because the film will prove you wrong about the travellers being accused of having guns. And it will prove I wasn’t making it up.
I must say though Chris, You are one of the most obnoxious little gits I have ever had the misfortune to meet, you have no manners, no decorum, You go about insulted and trying to ridicule people you don’t even know. And then pass yourself off as being politically correct.
Go back to the Daily Mail chap.
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:18 pm
hahaha! I just love the way if you don’t swallow the conspiraloon/secret state line about something you are immediately a ‘Daily Mail reader’! Classic!! You have come out with that one before in regard to my not falling for all that Alex Jones crap.
As has a guy on another forum who believes that the holocaust never happened and that it is fluoride in water that causes cancer.
Mate, i’m sure you’re a perfectly nice guy but I just don’t get the way that if you were to walk out your front door now and and your head got wet you’d think the Pentagon was testing cloud-busting bio-weaponry above you rather than there being a bit of rain.
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:35 pm
I think its you who is the conspiraloonie not me mate. I mention the travellers being accused of having guns and a rumour about one of them being killed, and thats a conspiraloonie/secret state line. I suppose you think Bloody Sunday is a conspiracy theory, or the sinking of the Belgrano or even that the 2 million unemployed has been invented. Or that Hesiltine’s mobilisation of the army to kick squatters off Molesworth is another fairy story. Or the miners strike didn’t happen.
I have not accused you of being a Daily Mail fan in a previous thread thats another one of your inventions.
Its funny how you always lack the IQ to understand simply language. I said, Quote, ‘and then pass yourself off as being politically correct, go back to the Daily Mail chap’ in other words you pretend to be politically correct when you rightful place is with all those obnoxious childish Daily Mail readers.
Quote “mate, i’m sure you’re a perfectly nice guy but i just don’t get the way that if you were to walk out your front door now and and your head got wet you’d think the Pentagon was testing cloud-busting bio-weaponry above you rather than there being a bit of rain”.
Actually I would probably think it was you pissing on me.
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Stewart Says:
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Yes, yes, yes, but let’s cut to the chase – what sort of beans were they in this field?
And how did they manage to kill a man?
Er Stewart I think it was a Sawney Bean field
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawney_Bean
Ooops sorry now I’m about to get blasted for making fun of the plight of an imaginary dead child.
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:47 pm
QUOTE: Actually I would probably think it was you pissing on me.
Hoho, not a service I offer though i’m sure there’s cards stuck up in phoneboxes or websites for that sort of thing.
For fuck’s sake man, it’s just a bit of fun.
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:51 pm
The Spirit of Albion documentary Part 1 – talking about events in summer 1986, at 5 mins 10 seconds has a news reporter says ” a senior police officer was overheard to say to a junior colleague that ’some of the travellers have armed themselves with machetes and stones’ but there is no evidence of this”…
Not quite guns then… and no evidence either.
In about 1988 I did meet an ex-Traveller who had become a pagan. This was in our flat (me and Pinki’s) in Hackney. He did say, and I believed him – that he had been part of a group of travellers who called themselves ‘The Mutants’ (nothing to do with Mutoid Waste Co. folks) in Wales. They were heavily into drug dealing and he did have a shot-gun which he carried in his truck as protection against other drug dealers – Hells Angels I think.
But he realised he was being stupid and got out of the scene and became a ‘peace loving pagan’… and he was not part of the Stonehenge Peace Convoy travellers at the time he had the gun.
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:56 pm
The story about guns and the convoy is all explained in Andy Worthingtons book The Battle of The Beanfield, there was no murder at the beanfield either. There were folk without mot, insurance etc but not everyone, those who didnt got their trucks and buses impounded if they weren’t already destroyed that year more than likely got em impounded not long after. Theres only so many times you can fail to ‘produce’ before it all catches up with you.
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:58 pm
Yes, Al, I watched that part too.
Perhaps most notable point being that it is a report of Stonehenge in 1986 (as the flltage is flagged at the start) – *NOT* 1985 when the ‘battle of the beanfield’ actually occurred.
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:59 pm
You need to watch the bit with Lord Cardigan speaking, and the newspaper cutting they show.
and once again
I DID NOT SAY THEY HAD GUNS I SAID THEY WERE ACCUSED OF HAVING THEM.
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:00 pm
perhaps most notable point being that it is a report of Stonehenge in 1986 – *NOT* 1985 when the ‘battle of the beanfield’ occurred.
So, and your point………………
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:05 pm
For fuck’s sake man, it’s just a bit of fun.
What being pissed on. or thinking that rain is piss, or going in phone boxes looking for piss prostitutes.
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:12 pm
Ooooooh-Kaaaay…take two…
my ‘point’ being –
“that [your ‘Spirit of Albion’ film and it appears the only ’source’ to substantiate your assertions) is a report of Stonehenge in 1986 – *NOT* 1985 when the ‘battle of the beanfield’ occurred”
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:15 pm
never liked the idea of getting a ‘golden shower’….each to their own tho
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Part 9 deals with the Battle of the Beanfiled; And stop intimidating me with those smiley faces.
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Andus, I have just watched part 9 all the way through, two times.
there is absolutely no mention whatsoever of anyone being killed or anyone having guns.
Unless perhaps it is subliminally encoded.
mate, you’re just digging yourself into a hole.
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:52 pm
No I know it doesn’t mention anyone being killed, but it does mention some Nazi dude who tried to sell the hippies guns, and it shows you the press cutting,
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:56 pm
you two need to get a room.
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:56 pm
QUOTE: No I know it doesn’t mention anyone being killed, but it does mention some Nazi dude who tried to sell the hippies guns, and it shows you the press cutting,
***** NO! IT DOESN’T !!! *****
QUOTE: If I remember right its this film that mentions all of my above assertions, its a channel 4 film first shown in 1987.
andus, mate, just admit in this instance you haven’t ‘remembered right’. It’s no big deal, and 1987, if that’s when you last saw the film, was a long time ago.
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:05 pm
Sorry mate wrong part. its in part 10.
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:08 pm
really, mate, it doesn’t matter. I’m off out for a drink now anyway.
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:09 pm
No I haven’t remembered right no, must be some other documentary.
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:38 pm
“Some Nazi Dude who tried to sell the hippies guns” …hmm now from trying to decipher this from all of your musings on this post are you talking about Barack Obama or Andy Martin with this reference?
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:43 pm
Barack Obama has a connection with arms dealing?
January 3rd, 2009 at 1:50 am
What a doss.
January 3rd, 2009 at 1:45 pm
If someone had got killed, it would have made the news no problem. But no copper would have got done for the killing, they always get let off, take early retirement, go and run a pub or guesthouse somewhere.
January 3rd, 2009 at 9:40 pm
John no last name – lol, you could be right…
Chris and Andus – I agree, get a room…
PS Having watched all 10 parts of Spirit of Albion, I’m still confused – were the hippies really evil demons with supernatural powers and pointy teeth, and was Stonehenge really the ancient equivalent of a car wash, only the rollers have decayed over time, or what???? Or was I watching the wrong film? And where does Captain Birdseye come into it?
January 3rd, 2009 at 10:35 pm
I never heard of anybody getting killed at the battle of the Beanfield before.
January 4th, 2009 at 1:02 am
Roger that Graham, sure I would have heard about a death while the plod were busting up transport and more importantly, HOMES, for many dozens of people during that tragic couple of days.
We must remember the pregnant women at the scene though, and I am sure they were a few, and what may have become of them and the unborn babies within them during all this turmoil. Hopefully nothing, but you never know…
How you doing Stewey? Still good I hope…is everything fine with you and yours?
January 4th, 2009 at 4:11 am
Well yes, I was very much in ‘the scene’ at that time, with alot of crossover with the traveller community as we spent alot of time at Molesworth peace camp throughout 84 and 85 (never actually lived or stayed there but was part of the support network and visited on regular basis and got to know alot of the folks who went on to become part of the peace convoy via Southend CND), also got to know people like Sid Rawle, John Pendragon, etc, who were spokespersons of the Travellers, plus was very up with the non-aligned and alternative media (Black Flag, Freedom, Class War, Peace News, Green Anarchist, etc, etc, etc) as well as deep involvement with the general anarcho-scene who would certainly have broadcast anything that significant, but never heard even a rumour along those lines. My partner’s sister also became a so-called ‘new age traveller’ around that time (actually a year or 2 later, but would still be au fait with the events and those involved) and so was very much a part of that network, and very much caught the sharp end of Thatcher’s publically stated intention to ‘make life as difficult as possible for these people’, but despite all the horrors she experienced and witnessed at the hands of the Authorities she never to the best of my knowledge heard about any deaths at the Battle of the Beanfield, although that was probably as much by luck than judgement (and as you rightly state penguin, who knows what happened to some of the pregnant women who were violently attacked, not to mention the PTSD many must have suffered). I think what happened there was horrendous enough and doesn’t need any exageration, the facts are well enough documented, in fact the propagation of unsubstantiatable rumours actually detracts from the implications of what happened that day and what the police/state are capable of, once reality starts to get muddied by rumour and exageration it becomes easier to discredit the voices that speak our truths, witness the fracas that have broken out here on this message board, never mind in the wider arenas of media that people actually pay attention to. Making unsubstantiated claims about deaths at the beanfield make it easier to dismiss the whole thing as the invention of a few stoned hippies living in trucks with no MOTs, and fuck it, it was 24 years ago so who gives a shit anyway…
January 4th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Hi I just wanted to share my personal experience of how the ‘myth’ of travellers having guns, that was being peddled by the tabloids at the time, translated into very real danger. My truck got trashed in Hackney (no major damage, just VERY scary), in summer 86 on the night of one of the royal weddings (possibly Andy and Fergie?), by a gang of lads back from the pub, in plastic union jack hats (which was beyond surreal). I was parked outside Tony and Cravat’s squat (can’t remember the name of the road) and had gone to bed in the truck early as I was preggers at the time, taking the dog with me. When the drunken likely lads came by, making a bit of a racket, the dog started barking and this drew their attention to the truck. Unfortunately there was a skip full of builder’s rubble and timber nearby, so they started pelting the truck with bricks and etc, shouting about “those hippies with their dogs and guns” as justification.
Fortunately, someone called the police, who came and saved the day! Oh, the irony!
January 4th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Not the brightest bunch of lads if they really did believe that you had guns in your truck…
January 4th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
QUOTE: I think what happened there was horrendous enough and doesn’t need any exageration, the facts are well enough documented, in fact the propagation of unsubstantiatable rumours actually detracts from the implications of what happened that day and what the police/state are capable of, once reality starts to get muddied by rumour and exageration it becomes easier to discredit the voices that speak our truths, witness the fracas that have broken out here on this message board, never mind in the wider arenas of media that people actually pay attention to. Making unsubstantiated claims about deaths at the beanfield make it easier to dismiss the whole thing as the invention of a few stoned hippies…
The most important point and very well put; Graham – The Voice of Reason!
And sorry to hear of that terrifying experience, Val. Unfortunate they had chosen Hackney, rather than the Gaza Strip, to throw stones at a van.
January 4th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Hi Penguin! Miscarried, sadly, but not unexpectedly… I’ll just have to wait for unknown children in unknown places to somehow miraculously track me down and shout ‘Dad!’…
And I agree with Graham!
Anyway, time to move on peeps… So answer me this question, which I’ve been wondering about for years: Were The Apostles the first transexual band or was that Wayne County? And what bra size was Andy/Andi anyway?
January 4th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Sorry to hear that Stewey…my thoughts are with you.
January 4th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
Hi Stew sorry to hear that..Hope you both make a quick recovery.
And yes..I agree with Graham…after living on the road between 88-95 I experienced how scary the police could be, at some points I could hardly believe what was happening..They where so heavy handed! And thats coming from someone who lived in loads of Punk squats throughout the 80’s(places like Campbell Buildings!)
And to answer your question about Andy and Wayne I remember them discussing punk in a cafe at the Nags Head in 1978 and Wayne was the only one taking the hormones at the time..to my knowledge.
January 10th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Ms County’s blogg is
http://rockandrollantirebublikkkanleague.blogspot.com
January 11th, 2009 at 4:01 am
Nic? Penguin? Mr Burnett? Anyone else who can help? Just came across this singularly intriguing cassette release on discogs – http://www.discogs.com/Various-In-The-Old-Days-No-7/release/1562017 – anyone know anything about it, or better still own a copy?
(NB: have reposted this here as the more apt thread takes ages to load as it’s so bloody long!)
January 11th, 2009 at 11:24 am
That tape was on this site earlier:
http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=392
Not as a download but some text from AL.
January 11th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
It’s still available from BBP, Chris…
January 16th, 2009 at 11:48 am
“We’ve almost finished collecting together all the old Apostles tracks required for remastering onto CD and digital format (downloads, i-pods, MP3s, alien telepathic links etc) but a few we have still be unable to trace. Has anyone copies the following three Apostles tracks they can send to us?
Imagine Think Dream. Four Small Worlds. Glass, Shells & Cars.
If anyone out there can assist us in this, please contact us at unitunited@yahoo.com. Thanks.”
January 19th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
finalised tracklisting for:
THE APOSTLES: “BLOW IT UP, BURN IT DOWN, KICK IT TILL IT BREAKS” CD
from 1st EP:
PIGS FOR SLAUGHTER
ALIEN ASIAN
FUCKING QUEER
PROLETARIAN AUTONOMY
1985
HELLO BLACK FLAG (previously unreleased, recorded at 1st EP recording session)
from 2nd EP:
SKIN DEEP
SWIMMING IN THE SEA OF LIFE
THE CRIPPLE
THE STOKE NEWINGTON EIGHT
from 3rd EP:
THE CURSE
THE CREATURE
from 5th EP:
MOB VIOLENCE (unreleased, complete version)
ANARCHY, PEACE & FREEDOM
A NEW WORLD IN OUR HEARTS
LIBERTARIAN YOUTH
AFTER THE FACT
HELLO MARK
(unreleased studio version of the early Apostles track, recorded at 2nd EP session, vocals by Larry Peterson)
THE PHOENIX Pts 1 & 2
(unheard original studio version of this unreleased tracks, recorded at the 2nd EP session)
(all songs studio remastered from ORIGINAL studio cassettes)
WATCH THIS SPACE FOR FURTHER DETAILS!
January 19th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
I was wondering Chris: what dictated the selection of certain songs and not others – for example, the missing songs from the 3rd EP?
January 20th, 2009 at 12:52 am
No album tracks? Or is this another project. i’d like to hear a decent version of Workers Autonomy complete with the jaunty little instrumental bit on the end, and also The Hunt (I think) that was a total plagiarism of Thin Lizzie’s ‘Emerald’
January 20th, 2009 at 1:33 am
Graham, here you go…great LP this>
http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=400
January 20th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
Nic: the reason only two tracks from the 3rd EP are represented on this CD is very simply because even on my original master cassette recorded straight from the mixing desk in Recession Studios the sound quality is so irredeemably shit, the studio technician who was remastering the stuff said that basically you could send the songs to the audio analysists who identified the gunshots on recordings of the Kennedy assassination “but they would still sound shit”. The two ‘title’ tracks have been included and every possible improvemnt has been made to their sound. Also, simply due to time constraints I thought it best to concentrate on the songs people had told me they wanted to hear remastered whereas noone had ever really requested any of those which have been omitted (mainly instrumental tracks). Whereas about EVERYONE told me ‘Hello Black Flag’ was among the songs they most wanted to hear a decent version of and many were surprised to even KNOW that a studio version of the classic “Hello Mark” had ever been recorded.
Graham: I’ve got nothing to do with any album tracks, best to email Andy bout that, mate.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:31 am
This has to be the funniest thread I can find anywhere on KYPP.
Bunch of hippies getting beaten up in a field is turned into a massive conspiracy involving deaths etc? I knew plenty of people who were there that day – and it is only here that I’ve heard any rumour of a death.
Maybe someone died afterwards from an OD? There were certainly a lot of heavy drug users involved with The Convoy.
What also struck me about The Convoy is that large elements of them were pure free market capitalists and had much more in common with Thatcher than both sides would’ve cared to admit.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
whatever happened to the apostles cds on bbp, cos i mailed gogs and he never replied, and i couldnt find anything on his website.
anybody know anything?
December 18th, 2009 at 2:55 am
Andy would be the chap to ask I’d imagine. I know he did digitise all the old cassettes and do covers for them.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:40 am
any news on the Apostles reissues, chris?
December 18th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
It’s only the remastered early singles (plus extra studio tracks from EP sessions) i’ve got anything to do with. Things been put on hold as I had to return to Scotland to look after my old dear and use the money I had put aside for the CD to help her out but, by coincidence, only today I heard some promising news re the project so shall keep you informed.
Haven’t a scooby-doo what’s happened to the BBP re-issues. Nothing to do with me folks!
December 18th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
Thanks Chris, sorry to hear about your family troubles.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
ok, i thought you, chris were working together with gogs.
please keep us posted on the remastered early 7″s
December 19th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Will do mate.
Regarding the reissues of the DEMOS I think Andy is the man to ask about all that. I can’t wait to hear digitised versions of the first four demos myself.
June 15th, 2010 at 7:55 am
Hi Chris -
I think you’re being a bit unfair to “andus”. Just because you can’t find something on Google or are a bit hazy on the details doesn’t mean it never happened. For example, I can clearly remember around the mid-80s everybody talking about this radical mercenary group, these four guys who got framed by the US government and had to go underground. They would help out oppressed communities against the authorities, solve violent crimes etc. They even made their own vehicles out of scrap metal, like our own crusty community! The fascist authorities were only further enraged by the fact they had an African-American member (One Love brother! Unite and Fight!) as Black and White joining together in the cause of revolution could clearly not be tolerated!
Needless to say, the powers that be ensured that all mention of this group was omitted from the MSM, yet somehow everybody knew of them and their audacious anti-establishment operations. As I say I can’t find anything about them on Wikipedia and have only the fuzziest recollection of the exact details, but I feel quite sure that the information I received from a number of knowledgeable individuals in the school playground was essentially correct. Sometimes a half-remembered anecdote from decades ago told to you by someone whose name escapes you can carry more weight than any amount of so-called “research”.
Cheers,
Simon
June 15th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
No it doesn’t Simon…
With about 5 seconds of ‘research’ I found this group who were active in 80s in USA – but were they ‘radical mercanaries’?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_19th_Communist_Organization
June 15th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Actually, I think it more likely to have been this Autonomous Urban Resistance Collective Simon was referring to:
http://biobreak.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fantasticfour01.jpg
June 15th, 2010 at 5:43 pm
Close Chris, but using my contacts in the underground I managed to locate a real picture of these revolutionary heroes:
http://mudflats.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/a-team.jpg
June 15th, 2010 at 6:25 pm